I’ve finally had the time to read the two articles Jon linked to in the comment section of God’s Blessings. Thanks for the contribution. I’ll jealously request that next time anyone links to an article I’d love to hear a sentence or two about what you think about it so I know what to look for and how to relate. But even without such hints from Jon I found plenty to comment on.
Mom gave a cursory look (as I did at first) and was initially turned off. For once, I did not have the same reaction, and though there is plenty I don’t agree with, it wasn’t enough for me to understand what turned her off so. My solution is simply to extract some quotes of note and give my reaction. Hopefully this (along with your comments) will eliminate some guessing as to what people are thinking about.
The following is from the article A Carnal Religious Fanatic.
“So today we have millions of church goers who never hunger for the Word, never pray, never witness, never are convicted of their sin, and have no outward much less inward display of being a follower of Jesus the Christ. And yet these people have been told they are Christians and that heaven is their eternal destination.”
Problem! And one I’ve struggled with while looking at myself and others.
“What is a carnal Christian? It is a person who hast lost the desire to serve and worship Jesus and he now walks and lives by the desires of his own flesh. This person once did follow Jesus and was a growing believer but he now languishes in a lethargy Spiritually but gains fleshly momentum. The Word no longer excites him and he leaves it alone. Prayer has long since ceased and he no longer speaks of Jesus and His kingdom. This person still may attend church but it is strictly a perfunctory exercise that no longer offers him any vibrant and broken worship and he doesn’t care about or seek the presence of God . . . We all battle carnality and its pull on our hearts, but a carnal Christian is one who has stopped battling, stopped pressing, and stopped seeking to please His Savior.”
Okay, but what is the motive here? It sounds like he’s saying it’s our responsibility to work really hard serving, worshiping, being excited, keeping up momentum, praying, battling, etc. I’d write more here, but I don’t think that’s what he’s saying because in the other article, The Testimony of Jesus, he says “so all you who are followers of Jesus I exhort you to rest in Him.” It is only when we fall into His arms and rest in Him that we receive the strength to follow Him and do His work.
“How can you tell a carnal Christian from a lost person? The answer is you cannot.”
So we should NOT judge! The second half of the article looks like one big judgment on all those carnal Christians out there, but if used to examine the heart, I think it can be helpful. I think we Christians need to reflect a lot more on what Jesus means when he tells us not to judge and what Paul says when he claims not even to judge himself! Yet he does judge himself. What can this mean for us? Again, I think he makes this point about reading his article for self-conviction rather than judging because he says “I have heard my fanatic tell me good things about myself when all the while the Spirit was calling me to repentance.” (The fanatic he’s talking about is the bit of carnal Christian in himself.) I can certainly relate to that quote.
“A carnal Christian if left on that journey for a while loses the witness that he is a Christian because the Holy Spirit will not give assurance to a disobedient child.”
I’m not sure what this means, but it scares me. Now it really sounds like it’s up to us to keep our salvation.
His last exhortation is good, though.
“Do not attempt to reason with [your religious fanatic], never listen to him, there is only one way to deal with this religious fanatic - death by crucifixion. This crucifixion must be carried out daily and the two wooden planks of this cross are the double edges of the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. Read and reckon yourselves dead and raised again to walk in newness of life.”
I like this quote from the end of The Testimony of Jesus best.
My testimony and what God has done to and through me will always be the moon reflecting the light of the glorious Son. I have no light and I have no testimony but Jesus.
Your thoughts?
I want to add two things to your list. The first is closely related to our love affair with stuff, and that is our love affair with entertainment. As a culture we cannot stand to be alone with our thoughts, each other, or God; we obliterate thoughtful communication and interaction by our constant television, radio, music, and games—and our incessant talk about them. Bibliophile that I am, I must confess that even books can be made to serve our quest for distraction. What greater proof of the sickness of our addiction than that we are not only consumed by the make-believe worlds of our entertainment, but wrapped up in the real lives of our entertainers as well. Do we know our own lives as well as we do those of our favorite celebrities? Do we know more about the interactions among the characters in our favorite TV shows than those of our own families? Surely living God's way requires stepping away from that which keeps us from the pains and pleasures of the world God gave us.
The second is like unto it, and is related to prayer: the need to practice and to appreciate silence: the silence that gives others a chance to speak; the silence of truly listening; the silence that lets our own thoughts coalesce; the silence that stills even our restless minds before God.
If I don't have time to read something, but I *think* it will be good, I always say that in the forward. Though I can only remember doing that once, this last week when I sent a Charlotte Mason book list to a few people.
So, I think it is safe to assume that anything I forward, I generally agree with most of it, or perhaps in perhaps some rare circumstance, I didn't agree, but it caused me to think so strongly about what I do believe that I didn't even notice that I disagreed, but that seems kind of odd, so I don't know if I actually do that.
Perhaps I read your, "though there is plenty I don’t agree with" statement too strongly. You said you disagreed less than Linda, but I think that isn't saying much.
As for my comments on things - I am never sure how helpful or edifying they will be, particularly when talking to you all, so I guess I try to limit my own words.
For Beth's article, I could repeat the second and third paragraphs in their entirety, except for the responsibility being on the *church*.
I don't think it is the responsibility of the church to correct society: "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked man from among you.' (1 Corinthians 5:12-13)".
Certainly, it is the responsibility of those inside the church to judge those inside the church. "you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. (1 Corinthians 5:11)".
I have been talking to Jonathan about prayer, and he enjoys praying before meals; I do agree with Beth that it is important, and I debate about whether it is better to let Jonathan ramble on at prayer times in order to not squash his spirit; but when he prays things that I cannot heartily say, "Amen" to, I am not sure. Certainly, Paul's call to "quench not the Spirit (1 Thes 5:19)" doesn't mean for us to do as the charismatics have done - never say anything for fear of quenching or grieving (Ephesians 4:30) the Spirit, and thereby allowing all sorts of things to go on. But, does Jonathan's ramblings, or even light or "inch-deep" (Beth's words, kind of like that) conversation count as the "corrupt communication" in Ephesians 4:29, and is it "good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."
Next paragraph: "Caring for the people close to the heart of God" - I have struggled some with this - on Sunday there was a sermon that mentioned "merely tolerating people", as opposed to loving them. And that is something I have a hard time with. There are few people that I get upset about, but many that I only "tolerate", and do not love them as God does. "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. (1 John 4:20-21)"
And lastly, the "stuff" part - that isn't something I worry about too much. I spend money relatively frugally, think regularly on what it would mean to live on a quarter of my current income (ie. working for myself, rather than my current job), have a clear conscience on how much we spend and give to others, don't desire publicity or popularity in the slightest. Providence Church sings a song that has a line, "I want so much Lord to make you my focus; to serve You in secret and never be noticed", and I think that's great - actually, now that I read the lyrics over again, I forgot how many good lines there are in there:
Surrender All by Rich Dalmas Take all I am, Lord and all that I cling to You are my Savior I owe everything to Take all the treasures that lie in my storehouse They cannot follow when I enter Your house So I surrender all to You I surrender all Take all my cravings for vain recognition Fleshly indulgence and worldly ambition I want so much Lord to make you my focus To serve You in secret and never be noticed Take all my hunger for all that's forbidden Every desire and sin I keep hidden Search me and know me, I want to bring to You A life that is holy and sanctified through You
